<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Are Security &#8220;Best Practices&#8221; Unethical?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/</link>
	<description>The Blog Inspired By The Book</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:05:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Best Practices for Defeating the term &#171; The New School of Information Security</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/#comment-980</link>
		<dc:creator>Best Practices for Defeating the term &#171; The New School of Information Security</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=754#comment-980</guid>
		<description>[...] I don&#8217;t like the term &#8220;Best Practices.&#8221; Andrew and I railed against it in the book (pages 36-38). I&#8217;ve made comments like &#8220;torture is a best practice,&#8221; &#8220;New best practice: think&#8221; and Alex has asked &#8220;Are Security “Best Practices” Unethical?&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I don&#8217;t like the term &#8220;Best Practices.&#8221; Andrew and I railed against it in the book (pages 36-38). I&#8217;ve made comments like &#8220;torture is a best practice,&#8221; &#8220;New best practice: think&#8221; and Alex has asked &#8220;Are Security “Best Practices” Unethical?&#8221; [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Interesting Information Security Bits RSA Catch-up Part 1 &#124; Infosec Ramblings</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/#comment-424</link>
		<dc:creator>Interesting Information Security Bits RSA Catch-up Part 1 &#124; Infosec Ramblings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=754#comment-424</guid>
		<description>[...] Are Security &#8220;Best Practices&#8221; Unethical? &lt;&lt; The New School of Information Security Tags: ( best-practices risk-management ) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Are Security &#8220;Best Practices&#8221; Unethical? &lt;&lt; The New School of Information Security Tags: ( best-practices risk-management ) [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anton Chuvakin</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>Anton Chuvakin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 07:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=754#comment-421</guid>
		<description>Alex, did you just kick me in the balls :-)

In any case, the response is coming!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, did you just kick me in the balls <img src='http://newschoolsecurity.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>In any case, the response is coming!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/#comment-408</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=754#comment-408</guid>
		<description>Exactly; I&#039;ve always appreciated that the Information Security Forum (ISF) publishes their Standard of GOOD Practice -- not BEST. Security is a business decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly; I&#8217;ve always appreciated that the Information Security Forum (ISF) publishes their Standard of GOOD Practice &#8212; not BEST. Security is a business decision.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=754#comment-398</guid>
		<description>Hi Richard!

RE: Guns vs. Butter - I suppose it depends at what level you&#039;re talking about.  

For &quot;cost of downtime vs. vulnerability&quot; or &quot;$5 million for security or $5 million for marketing&quot; sort of decisions, I&#039;d argue those are business decisions that security shouldn&#039;t be making.

If it is &quot;this is my $15 million security budget to figure out how much to P/D/R - then many times, yes, that is a CISO&#039;s decision - but again I would qualify that by saying that the CISO&#039;s job is to spend that money within the *context* of the risk tolerance of the business owners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Richard!</p>
<p>RE: Guns vs. Butter &#8211; I suppose it depends at what level you&#8217;re talking about.  </p>
<p>For &#8220;cost of downtime vs. vulnerability&#8221; or &#8220;$5 million for security or $5 million for marketing&#8221; sort of decisions, I&#8217;d argue those are business decisions that security shouldn&#8217;t be making.</p>
<p>If it is &#8220;this is my $15 million security budget to figure out how much to P/D/R &#8211; then many times, yes, that is a CISO&#8217;s decision &#8211; but again I would qualify that by saying that the CISO&#8217;s job is to spend that money within the *context* of the risk tolerance of the business owners.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Johnson</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 13:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=754#comment-396</guid>
		<description>A &quot;best practice&quot; is naught but a management tool.

Pick carefully among those presented to you by readers of airline magazines, choosing those that make sense for achieving the one metric that matters: does sufficient revenue (or other measure of organizational success) continue?

Then manage users and management with the &quot;best practice&quot; you and they have selected to achieve that goal.

Also, don&#039;t hesitate to feed externally imposed &quot;best practices&quot; through a challenge/BS-filter.  The whole password complexity thing is a case in point.  Passwords are not compromised in the majority here by being non-complex.  They&#039;re mostly compromised by being phished or by being logged by trojans/malware.  Our &quot;best practice&quot; for passwords thus have complexity and change requirements tailored to those threats, not to what too many others are still doing.

(I&#039;m going to stay out of the whole &quot;security metrics&quot; thing beyond noting that it&#039;s a wonderful goal for those with far more resources to do science on their users than most of us can afford. :-)

Finally, your assertion that the economic decision of butter vs. guns is not our call to make is incorrect (I guess I disagree with more of CISSP than I knew).  We do make that call; it&#039;s what our management pays us for.  Even better, their charge to us is to find ways to have both together at reduced expense.  That&#039;s a competitive advantage: employees are more productive because they both find it easier to get their work done, and we&#039;ve reduced the hit from compromises and cleanup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A &#8220;best practice&#8221; is naught but a management tool.</p>
<p>Pick carefully among those presented to you by readers of airline magazines, choosing those that make sense for achieving the one metric that matters: does sufficient revenue (or other measure of organizational success) continue?</p>
<p>Then manage users and management with the &#8220;best practice&#8221; you and they have selected to achieve that goal.</p>
<p>Also, don&#8217;t hesitate to feed externally imposed &#8220;best practices&#8221; through a challenge/BS-filter.  The whole password complexity thing is a case in point.  Passwords are not compromised in the majority here by being non-complex.  They&#8217;re mostly compromised by being phished or by being logged by trojans/malware.  Our &#8220;best practice&#8221; for passwords thus have complexity and change requirements tailored to those threats, not to what too many others are still doing.</p>
<p>(I&#8217;m going to stay out of the whole &#8220;security metrics&#8221; thing beyond noting that it&#8217;s a wonderful goal for those with far more resources to do science on their users than most of us can afford. <img src='http://newschoolsecurity.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Finally, your assertion that the economic decision of butter vs. guns is not our call to make is incorrect (I guess I disagree with more of CISSP than I knew).  We do make that call; it&#8217;s what our management pays us for.  Even better, their charge to us is to find ways to have both together at reduced expense.  That&#8217;s a competitive advantage: employees are more productive because they both find it easier to get their work done, and we&#8217;ve reduced the hit from compromises and cleanup.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: alex</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator>alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=754#comment-395</guid>
		<description>Patrick, 

I totally agree.  Best Practices are like checklists - they&#039;re fine with significant experience/wisdom.  Pre-flight checklists work because we know what makes an airplane fall out of the sky.  We don&#039;t really know what keeps a network &quot;in the air&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick, </p>
<p>I totally agree.  Best Practices are like checklists &#8211; they&#8217;re fine with significant experience/wisdom.  Pre-flight checklists work because we know what makes an airplane fall out of the sky.  We don&#8217;t really know what keeps a network &#8220;in the air&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick Florer</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/#comment-394</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Florer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=754#comment-394</guid>
		<description>Hi, Alex -

I couldn&#039;t agree more - this issue is also a pet peeve of mine, although I am learning to keep my mouth shut more than I used to.

Best implies a comparison of at least 3 alternatives, right?  good, better, best?
Absent data, it&#039;s pretty hard to make such a comparison in any kind of meaningful way.

Standard practice is problematic for me, maybe because in medicine - part of my background - a standard of care implies a significant legal obligation.  

Also I don&#039;t see the relevance of saying that something would be standard just because everyone did it. Millions of lemmings jump off cliffs - I guess that by the time they figure out what they have done, terminology is almost irrelevant :)

I don&#039;t have a problem with good practice.  Some people do have long and deep experience, and it&#039;s important to respect that, even if it&#039;s &quot;anecdotal&quot; evidence.

Patrick
Dallas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Alex -</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more &#8211; this issue is also a pet peeve of mine, although I am learning to keep my mouth shut more than I used to.</p>
<p>Best implies a comparison of at least 3 alternatives, right?  good, better, best?<br />
Absent data, it&#8217;s pretty hard to make such a comparison in any kind of meaningful way.</p>
<p>Standard practice is problematic for me, maybe because in medicine &#8211; part of my background &#8211; a standard of care implies a significant legal obligation.  </p>
<p>Also I don&#8217;t see the relevance of saying that something would be standard just because everyone did it. Millions of lemmings jump off cliffs &#8211; I guess that by the time they figure out what they have done, terminology is almost irrelevant <img src='http://newschoolsecurity.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a problem with good practice.  Some people do have long and deep experience, and it&#8217;s important to respect that, even if it&#8217;s &#8220;anecdotal&#8221; evidence.</p>
<p>Patrick<br />
Dallas</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kyle Maxwell</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/#comment-393</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Maxwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 18:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=754#comment-393</guid>
		<description>When speaking with clients or upper management, I generally refer to &quot;standard practices&quot;. The fact that &#039;everyone else does it&#039; just makes it a &lt;i&gt;de facto&lt;/i&gt; standard, not necessarily optimal. From a statistical perspective, unless everyone does the same thing, I don&#039;t think we can all do the &quot;best&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When speaking with clients or upper management, I generally refer to &#8220;standard practices&#8221;. The fact that &#8216;everyone else does it&#8217; just makes it a <i>de facto</i> standard, not necessarily optimal. From a statistical perspective, unless everyone does the same thing, I don&#8217;t think we can all do the &#8220;best&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/10/are-security-best-practices-unethical/#comment-390</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=754#comment-390</guid>
		<description>Amen, Alex!  One example of &quot;best practice&quot; is password policy, e.g.: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/08/password_advice.html

But such password policies have usability problems:

&quot;Security companies and IT people constantly tells us that we should use complex and difficult passwords. This is bad advice, because you can actually make usable, easy to remember and highly secure passwords. In fact, usable passwords are often far better than complex ones. &quot;  http://www.baekdal.com/articles/Usability/password-security-usability/

But has anyone tested alternative password policies in realistic settings (i.e. real users or test users, real systems, real workloads) and evaluated them by  measuring security outcomes (i.e. breaches, incidents, near-misses)?   If so, then you deserve to call your preferred policy a &quot;best practice&quot;.  Otherwise, it&#039;s just folklore.  Might be useful, might not.

We could probably assemble good evidence to support a list of &quot;worst practices&quot; (e.g. leaving web servers in default configuration, never patching critical software) from forensic analysis of breaches.  But just because something is better than &quot;worst practice&quot; doesn&#039;t make it a &quot;best practice&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen, Alex!  One example of &#8220;best practice&#8221; is password policy, e.g.: <a href="http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/08/password_advice.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/08/password_advice.html</a></p>
<p>But such password policies have usability problems:</p>
<p>&#8220;Security companies and IT people constantly tells us that we should use complex and difficult passwords. This is bad advice, because you can actually make usable, easy to remember and highly secure passwords. In fact, usable passwords are often far better than complex ones. &#8221;  <a href="http://www.baekdal.com/articles/Usability/password-security-usability/" rel="nofollow">http://www.baekdal.com/articles/Usability/password-security-usability/</a></p>
<p>But has anyone tested alternative password policies in realistic settings (i.e. real users or test users, real systems, real workloads) and evaluated them by  measuring security outcomes (i.e. breaches, incidents, near-misses)?   If so, then you deserve to call your preferred policy a &#8220;best practice&#8221;.  Otherwise, it&#8217;s just folklore.  Might be useful, might not.</p>
<p>We could probably assemble good evidence to support a list of &#8220;worst practices&#8221; (e.g. leaving web servers in default configuration, never patching critical software) from forensic analysis of breaches.  But just because something is better than &#8220;worst practice&#8221; doesn&#8217;t make it a &#8220;best practice&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

