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	<title>Comments on: Making Sense of the SANS &#8220;Top Cyber Security Risks&#8221; Report</title>
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	<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/09/making-sense-of-the-sans-top-cyber-security-risks-report/</link>
	<description>The Blog Inspired By The Book</description>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/09/making-sense-of-the-sans-top-cyber-security-risks-report/#comment-332</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=613#comment-332</guid>
		<description>Corrected NYT link: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/security-pros-are-focused-on-the-wrong-threats/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corrected NYT link: <a href="http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/security-pros-are-focused-on-the-wrong-threats/" rel="nofollow">http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/security-pros-are-focused-on-the-wrong-threats/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/09/making-sense-of-the-sans-top-cyber-security-risks-report/#comment-331</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=613#comment-331</guid>
		<description>@Mark -- Yes, the general points of this report may, in fact, be true.  I certainly don&#039;t have contrary evidence.  (See the comments to this NYT blog for some debate: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/security-pros-are-focused-on-the-wrong-threats/)

What my critique is trying to do is hold all of us to a higher standard.  This report was presented as a large-scale study based on both attack and vulnerability data.  Nearly all of the blogs and online articles that echoed this report mentioned it&#039;s quantitative basis. 

The New School manifesto is that it&#039;s not good enough anymore to rely on informed opinion and generally-held beliefs about top security risks, etc.  Instead, what we need are robust data analysis, field studies, experiments, and simulations.  We need to test hypotheses in a way they can be confirmed or discredited .  We need to know more about the limits of our knowledge, unknown-unknowns, and what we need to learn next to improve our understanding.  Most of all, we need critical tests  that challenge our conventional wisdom.

At the very least, any study should make clear which conclusions are based on solid data analysis and which are based on informed opinion, collective wisdom, or hand-waving.

Yes, some of my critique points were relatively small or cosmetic.  But even the cosmetic flaws can get in the way of people making good use of this study, and increase the chances that they will get confused or misinterpret the results.

Lastly, the authors of this report should have been writing for another audience: other organizations who might want to replicate the study internally.  Just think how much more compelling the results would be if 5, 10, or 20 large organizations did the same study internally and then published the results in a comparable manner?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark &#8212; Yes, the general points of this report may, in fact, be true.  I certainly don&#8217;t have contrary evidence.  (See the comments to this NYT blog for some debate: <a href="http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/security-pros-are-focused-on-the-wrong-threats/" rel="nofollow">http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/security-pros-are-focused-on-the-wrong-threats/</a>)</p>
<p>What my critique is trying to do is hold all of us to a higher standard.  This report was presented as a large-scale study based on both attack and vulnerability data.  Nearly all of the blogs and online articles that echoed this report mentioned it&#8217;s quantitative basis. </p>
<p>The New School manifesto is that it&#8217;s not good enough anymore to rely on informed opinion and generally-held beliefs about top security risks, etc.  Instead, what we need are robust data analysis, field studies, experiments, and simulations.  We need to test hypotheses in a way they can be confirmed or discredited .  We need to know more about the limits of our knowledge, unknown-unknowns, and what we need to learn next to improve our understanding.  Most of all, we need critical tests  that challenge our conventional wisdom.</p>
<p>At the very least, any study should make clear which conclusions are based on solid data analysis and which are based on informed opinion, collective wisdom, or hand-waving.</p>
<p>Yes, some of my critique points were relatively small or cosmetic.  But even the cosmetic flaws can get in the way of people making good use of this study, and increase the chances that they will get confused or misinterpret the results.</p>
<p>Lastly, the authors of this report should have been writing for another audience: other organizations who might want to replicate the study internally.  Just think how much more compelling the results would be if 5, 10, or 20 large organizations did the same study internally and then published the results in a comparable manner?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Baldwin</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/09/making-sense-of-the-sans-top-cyber-security-risks-report/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Baldwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=613#comment-330</guid>
		<description>These are all good points and it is nice to see some critical analysis of this report.  While we may be able to criticize some of the minutiae of the report, I didn&#039;t read anything in it that rang untrue to me.  If you work in the industry you know that: 

-  Many of the vulnerabilities these days are in applications such as Adobe Acrobat Reader and Flash Player. 
-  There have been lots of zero day vulnerabilities reported this year.  I can think of half a dozen in the last few months alone.
-  Web application attacks are on the rise and are one of the primary threats on the Internet today.
-  Patch management is a time consuming and challenging task that many companies do poorly.  This in turn can lead to compromised systems due to the number of malicious web sites and malicious spam email.

We can argue about whether 60% of attacks are against web applications or if 80% of vulnerabilities are SQL Injection or XSS flaws.  But it seems to me that the broader picture being painted here is in line with what I see every day in my work, research, and reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are all good points and it is nice to see some critical analysis of this report.  While we may be able to criticize some of the minutiae of the report, I didn&#8217;t read anything in it that rang untrue to me.  If you work in the industry you know that: </p>
<p>-  Many of the vulnerabilities these days are in applications such as Adobe Acrobat Reader and Flash Player.<br />
-  There have been lots of zero day vulnerabilities reported this year.  I can think of half a dozen in the last few months alone.<br />
-  Web application attacks are on the rise and are one of the primary threats on the Internet today.<br />
-  Patch management is a time consuming and challenging task that many companies do poorly.  This in turn can lead to compromised systems due to the number of malicious web sites and malicious spam email.</p>
<p>We can argue about whether 60% of attacks are against web applications or if 80% of vulnerabilities are SQL Injection or XSS flaws.  But it seems to me that the broader picture being painted here is in line with what I see every day in my work, research, and reading.</p>
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		<title>By: Internet security by numbers &#171; Erich sieht</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/09/making-sense-of-the-sans-top-cyber-security-risks-report/#comment-329</link>
		<dc:creator>Internet security by numbers &#171; Erich sieht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=613#comment-329</guid>
		<description>[...] Making Sense of the SANS “Top Cyber Security Risks” Report at The New School of Information Security for a critique of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Making Sense of the SANS “Top Cyber Security Risks” Report at The New School of Information Security for a critique of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pen Tester</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/09/making-sense-of-the-sans-top-cyber-security-risks-report/#comment-328</link>
		<dc:creator>Pen Tester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=613#comment-328</guid>
		<description>“Attacks against web applications constitute more than 60% of the total attack attempts observed on the Internet.” 

They&#039;ve quoted Gartner there. What&#039;s concerning is that Gartner are known for 80/20 results, so this result is suspicious...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Attacks against web applications constitute more than 60% of the total attack attempts observed on the Internet.” </p>
<p>They&#8217;ve quoted Gartner there. What&#8217;s concerning is that Gartner are known for 80/20 results, so this result is suspicious&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/09/making-sense-of-the-sans-top-cyber-security-risks-report/#comment-327</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=613#comment-327</guid>
		<description>@Dean Good points, though I wouldn&#039;t go so far as to say that the SANS study was &quot;irretrievably contanimated&quot; or that for-profit companies can&#039;t usefully participate or lead studies like this.  

What we need are checks and balances and transparency.  If readers know where the data comes from, has some basis for confidence that the data was collected and recorded reliably, and that the data analysis methods are well-suited to the goals, then we can have some confidence in the outcomes, especially if the study is reproducable or if it faces competing studies.

If for-profit organizations know that they will be facing this sort of scrutiny, they will do better studies.  Maybe not perfect or ideal, but at least fairly good.

If, instead, we take a &quot;leave it to the government&quot; approach, we will be depriving ourselves of the resources, creativity, and initiative of the private sector.  I&#039;d rather see positive economic incentives for private sector organization to do more and more of this type of study, especially to collaborate with others. IMHO that is the best way to get the richest set of information and insights into a very complex, fast-changing world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dean Good points, though I wouldn&#8217;t go so far as to say that the SANS study was &#8220;irretrievably contanimated&#8221; or that for-profit companies can&#8217;t usefully participate or lead studies like this.  </p>
<p>What we need are checks and balances and transparency.  If readers know where the data comes from, has some basis for confidence that the data was collected and recorded reliably, and that the data analysis methods are well-suited to the goals, then we can have some confidence in the outcomes, especially if the study is reproducable or if it faces competing studies.</p>
<p>If for-profit organizations know that they will be facing this sort of scrutiny, they will do better studies.  Maybe not perfect or ideal, but at least fairly good.</p>
<p>If, instead, we take a &#8220;leave it to the government&#8221; approach, we will be depriving ourselves of the resources, creativity, and initiative of the private sector.  I&#8217;d rather see positive economic incentives for private sector organization to do more and more of this type of study, especially to collaborate with others. IMHO that is the best way to get the richest set of information and insights into a very complex, fast-changing world.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Loomis</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/09/making-sense-of-the-sans-top-cyber-security-risks-report/#comment-326</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Loomis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=613#comment-326</guid>
		<description>This kind of impenetrable analysis is easily predictable from the fact that it comes from profit making organizations.  The fact that its sponsors, Qualys and TippingPoint, also provide the data, irretrievably contaminates its trustworthiness, the sincere but amateur efforts of the SANS ISC notwithstanding.

This phenomenon is precisely why we have government-sponsored agencies such as Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the World Health Organization, doing surveillance for disease prevalence.  Imagine if our best data about the H1N1 pandemic came from Roche, based on a geographic breakdown of quarterly sales of Tamiflu.  It would be intolerable for public health, and it should be intolerable for public cyberhealth.

The U.S. government already has collection points at all the right locations to provide authoritative measurements, but they&#039;re secret anti-terrorism projects, and inter-agency rivalries (or is it intra-agency now that they&#039;re all within DHS?) prevent them from giving anyone the data needed to &quot;connect the dots&quot; into a credible picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This kind of impenetrable analysis is easily predictable from the fact that it comes from profit making organizations.  The fact that its sponsors, Qualys and TippingPoint, also provide the data, irretrievably contaminates its trustworthiness, the sincere but amateur efforts of the SANS ISC notwithstanding.</p>
<p>This phenomenon is precisely why we have government-sponsored agencies such as Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the World Health Organization, doing surveillance for disease prevalence.  Imagine if our best data about the H1N1 pandemic came from Roche, based on a geographic breakdown of quarterly sales of Tamiflu.  It would be intolerable for public health, and it should be intolerable for public cyberhealth.</p>
<p>The U.S. government already has collection points at all the right locations to provide authoritative measurements, but they&#8217;re secret anti-terrorism projects, and inter-agency rivalries (or is it intra-agency now that they&#8217;re all within DHS?) prevent them from giving anyone the data needed to &#8220;connect the dots&#8221; into a credible picture.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/09/making-sense-of-the-sans-top-cyber-security-risks-report/#comment-325</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=613#comment-325</guid>
		<description>What amazes me about this whole process is how the &quot;new media&quot; is often nothing more than an echo chamber, repeating what some &quot;authority&quot; publishes without any evaluation or validation.  One blog post ended with something like this: &quot;These guys are experts, so we should listen to them.&quot; 

I did see a couple of online articles that did add some information, but only in the form of interviews of people involved in the study or the bosses at SANS.  

This pattern of uncritical acceptance of these studies makes me skeptical when ever I hear the phrase &quot;best practices&quot; -- as if the practices have been carefully evaluated against alternatives using some objective performance standards.  Instead, I wonder how many &quot;best practices&quot; are just this: &quot;I heard it from a guy... who heard it from a guy... who heard it from another guy...&quot;

I can see parallels in lead-up to the Iraq War, esp. the &quot;Iraq Dossier&quot; that was &quot;sexed up&quot;, and the rest.  When you have self-interested parties producing reports of &quot;fact&quot; that promote their interests and agenda, we should all be very skeptical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What amazes me about this whole process is how the &#8220;new media&#8221; is often nothing more than an echo chamber, repeating what some &#8220;authority&#8221; publishes without any evaluation or validation.  One blog post ended with something like this: &#8220;These guys are experts, so we should listen to them.&#8221; </p>
<p>I did see a couple of online articles that did add some information, but only in the form of interviews of people involved in the study or the bosses at SANS.  </p>
<p>This pattern of uncritical acceptance of these studies makes me skeptical when ever I hear the phrase &#8220;best practices&#8221; &#8212; as if the practices have been carefully evaluated against alternatives using some objective performance standards.  Instead, I wonder how many &#8220;best practices&#8221; are just this: &#8220;I heard it from a guy&#8230; who heard it from a guy&#8230; who heard it from another guy&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I can see parallels in lead-up to the Iraq War, esp. the &#8220;Iraq Dossier&#8221; that was &#8220;sexed up&#8221;, and the rest.  When you have self-interested parties producing reports of &#8220;fact&#8221; that promote their interests and agenda, we should all be very skeptical.</p>
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		<title>By: Petey Wheatstraw</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/09/making-sense-of-the-sans-top-cyber-security-risks-report/#comment-324</link>
		<dc:creator>Petey Wheatstraw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=613#comment-324</guid>
		<description>I think over half of all resources expended on infosec are for useless &quot;trending&quot; and &quot;high level reporting&quot; efforts like this.

They are useless for exactly the reason you have mentioned: because there is no sound methodology for discovering, characterizing, and reporting &quot;trends&quot; over any long (&gt;3 days, say) time period.

What these reports will tell you that in the past 12 months the community as a whole saw a shift to...the stuff you have been dealing with over the past 12 months.  What I need to know from a trending perspective is what response trends appeared at different organizations.  Did they spend more or less?  Did they hire more people with more security certifications?  Did incidents cost more?

None of this stuff is actionable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think over half of all resources expended on infosec are for useless &#8220;trending&#8221; and &#8220;high level reporting&#8221; efforts like this.</p>
<p>They are useless for exactly the reason you have mentioned: because there is no sound methodology for discovering, characterizing, and reporting &#8220;trends&#8221; over any long (&gt;3 days, say) time period.</p>
<p>What these reports will tell you that in the past 12 months the community as a whole saw a shift to&#8230;the stuff you have been dealing with over the past 12 months.  What I need to know from a trending perspective is what response trends appeared at different organizations.  Did they spend more or less?  Did they hire more people with more security certifications?  Did incidents cost more?</p>
<p>None of this stuff is actionable.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Groves</title>
		<link>http://newschoolsecurity.com/2009/09/making-sense-of-the-sans-top-cyber-security-risks-report/#comment-323</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Groves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newschoolsecurity.com/?p=613#comment-323</guid>
		<description>Absolutely, brilliant!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely, brilliant!</p>
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